Sam Birkett 0:14
Well, hello again, everyone, welcome to Marketing Meanders with Sally and Sam. The podcast where we talk about Marketing at the coalface and I suppose really, today, we're actually talking about Marketing in the coalface in the new year, in 2023. Which part of this conversation is us going Oh, my goodness, how on earth can it be 2023? And how could it be Christmas? Yeah, how could it possibly be the end of the year, but with the end of the year, as we all know, comes quite a lot of tasks to complete, and also ponderings to be had, and planning for the new year. So whether you're working on, you know, academic years, or tax year, business years, wherever your business year may be, clearly, when we get to the end of a period, and everyone's going to be off for the best part of two weeks, or on and off during that period, we naturally have a defining moment, don't we? And think about what's what's gonna come?

Sally Green 1:13
Yep. Yeah and it's very easy to forget it, or just think, Oh, thank God, we're gonna have a break, I can just stop and in a way, now, you need to keep going, you know, pedal your little pedals as fast as you possibly can to make sure that when you come back at the beginning of next year, you don't find a chaotic mess and just feel depressed from the word go.

Sam Birkett 1:37
Yes, exactly and that's the thing. Isn't it really, this whole? Because we were saying offline went with it, you know, it comes around so quickly and again, some of these cliches and things, but it's true, it does come round so quickly and before you know where you are, I mean, for me, it's like, you're in September, and you're thinking, right, so end of the summer, everyone's back to school back to focusing on conference season, etc and then that's just gone and then it comes up to Christmas and as you say, I mean, it, wouldn't it be wonderful if you could just wind down, but it is all about planning preparation to steal a march on next year, isn't it really.

Sally Green 2:14
Exactly and if you don't ever, I think it's, we've all done it, I've done it, and just, it'd be alright and you get back and you realise that you've missed quite a lot of things you've kind of, maybe you've missed the final early bird for getting onto that conference, which is not until May next year, but they were doing the early bird now. You know because you haven't organised your budgets this year, you don't know whether you can afford to go to that conference, or do that fantastic marketing campaign that everyone's asking for, because you've not sorted out the budget, which means that next year, you're gonna have to do everything too quickly to do it properly, really, and then it's just gonna be a mess forever. So although you've Oh, no, I can't state change speed now because I have all these meetings, but before the end of the year, blah, blah, blah, no actually take some genuine timeout and say, right, I am going to spend three days sorting out next year. I'm going to put my marketing plans in place, I'm going to sort out the budget, I'm going to do some coherence scheduling and I am going to start communicating with other teams to say, this is what is going to happen next year. So you've got that nice alignment happening. So people... nothing's a surprise for anybody. You don't kind of get back in January, and all of a sudden, the finance team or the operations team are going, you're doing what? Why? We can't do that! So you need to make sure that you're not just sorting yourself out, but communicating your great plans outward internally.

Sam Birkett 3:45
Yes, I think actually that point, in particular, is potentially the most critical as it were. Because, as you say, it is that whole thing of actually ensuring everyone's on the same board, and knows what's happening. Because with this period of time, you've got so many people physically leaving the office and going off for Christmas early. I mean, how often have you had it where you'd be trying to get something sorted out and you go, just need this person to send this email before the break and then it'll be fine and then you find out that person finished two days ago and isn't back till you know, January 6th or something like that and the problem is, we need to actually be planned up and prepared beforehand to ensure that you know, we don't have that issue in the first place and it's actually, it's that foresight, isn't it almost that foresight beforehand, to ensure that you don't end up with that issue.

Sally Green 4:38
Exactly and that's a really good point. You should never get to December 1st and... on December 1st you should make sure you know when everybody is leaving for Christmas and it's just not that difficult. I know nobody does it. But really it shouldn't be that difficult to have put a rota up, you know, even have one of those big you know, old-fashioned paper Sasco wall planners on the wall and people just fill in when they're leaving. So you just look at it and go, Oh, look Sam's leaving on Tuesday. I bet it makes sure he's done that report I need from him.

Sam Birkett 5:11
Exactly, because I've had this before where I've, you know, been in the same and, and then you're almost at your computer, then you look around, I mean, back in the good old days, when we kind of would be in an office together, I suppose more often than not.

Sally Green 5:27
Once upon a time.

Sam Birkett 5:27
I mean, this could have literally happened or metaphorically happened, where you just look around you go, ooh, hang on a second. I'm almost on my own here. People have all gone. But there were these two or three things that needed to happen before we all finished and it's not usually really my responsibility, but I'm gonna have to get on to do these things now. Because there's no one else to do them. But I suppose in that sense, it's that sort of good practice in general, isn't it, this is a good time is a wake-up call almost for you to realise well, do we have good, regular communications with each other to understand responsibilities to understand deadlines? And who's finishing what, when?

Sally Green 6:07
Yeah, exactly and the other thing you want to do now is because you'll mean to do it in January, but you won't and that's looked back on this year and say, which campaigns went well? How did we spent the budget? Has this been a good year? What should we replicate? What should we ditch? How should we change it? And actually sit down and give a really good kind of, and write a report, which you can share about how this year went. So that everyone can learn from it. Because you always think, oh, yeah, I'll do that in January and then you get back in January and there's so much to do, because you haven't been there for two weeks, that you think, Oh, I don't want to be late and it never gets done. So if you do it now, you've done it.

Sam Birkett 6:50
Yeah, exactly. I mean, because as you say, otherwise, there is always that temptation about well I'll set my out of office and then once they're out of office is done, then I'll come back off two weeks ago. Oh, right. Okay, I've got to try and get my head back into things. Now, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking that people almost need to actually push this back a month or pull it forward a month rather, so that you almost, you know, it's like instances I was writing down here about New Year's resolutions. So reviewing where you've been and what you've done using this as a good point to then look at, well, what are we going to do next year, but it's almost like a lot of the time to think perhaps you get back in the office and you're full of Christmas cheer and mince pies and gin and everything else and you're thinking ahh right now, so now let's start afresh and start a new and new resolution to do things differently and it's almost like that's actually probably not going to happen. Because you say you're spending so much time catching up on what you need to do that you're not probably not going to actually enact things which come along. So you need to have almost done the resolutions before you go away. I think so this whole review needs to be early it isn't it?

Sally Green 8:00
Yeah, completely and other people, you've also got to remember that your audience is going away as well. So unless you're selling Christmas goods, which now is more fret frenetic than ever, so Christmas goods, your audience is absolutely at its peak. But for a lot of products and services, your audience is winding down as well. So there is probably no point thinking, Yeah, I've got this great campaign, it'll go out on the 18th of December. Well, brilliant, but yet crap. So actually, we're probably going to be running that industry in January. So you need to remember that things aren't going to start not working as well. As you flow into... and if you're doing this internationally, you need to remember that America has Thanksgiving. So they stopped even earlier that some countries possibly don't do Christmas, this is important. We don't all do Christmas. So if you've got let's see, you've got a big Middle Eastern audience. So you've got a big far-eastern audience, they don't do Christmas, but you need to think about their seasonal holidays as well and possibly flex your plans around them and now is the time to think about that. Because it's very easy to plan. Oh yes, we're doing a big push in Thailand, or in China and you think oh no, it's Chinese New Year bother. So yeah, so just as we're winding down plan your campaigns because other places wind down.

Sam Birkett 9:26
Yes, that's the thing and I suppose if you're in a team that's actually very well prepared and actually you've already way back, well whenever you started your new cycle for your you know, your campaigns and your annual plans, you will have actually gone in and said right so we know already that we've got all of these plotted in these holidays, etc. We know what we need to achieve, as you say in terms of the audience, understanding where they are, what they're doing, what we can expect of them, I suppose in terms of interacting, engagement, etc. Over that period. I mean, because it's an interesting one with, I think in the past, when involved with doing executive education programmes, in particular, looking at things to do with self-development and everything, I mean, there's that. Also, another interesting emotional thing about perhaps over that period of time, if you've left the food for thought beforehand to consider, what do I want to do and because you know, we all individually go, don't we, it's like, the end of the year is a sort of a milestone, and we go, so next year, I want to dum-dadum-dadum, but if you've planted something built up to that period, so not just back to the one-off saying, Hey, check this out, whilst you're sitting around, you know, pondering things or going on a Christmas walk. It's like, you know, if you built up to that period quite nicely and planted a seed. Yeah, then think about, well, I mean, this is one specific product I'm talking about here, one product service. What is that you're gonna get with people after? It's because as you said, it depends, are you actually in the business of selling Christmas stuff, you know, Christmas products? Because if you are, you will have been planning all this way back in the spring, of course, and this is now your delivery period, isn't it? So you're planning for next year? But whatever you're selling, it's just getting the correct timing and understanding of your audience. You say where they're at, isn't it really, which is an ongoing thing, but...

Sally Green 11:19
Yeah and it is recognising your lead times and a lot of people this is something that marketers when you first become a marketer, that's one of the most surprising that the lead times I think, as you've just said, then that Christmas producers will have been planning this since, as you say May, but when you first get into the marketing zone, in a marketing career, you think, well, I've got to do a whole load of campaigns about baubles now? It's spring! That's not right. But that is what the lead time is. That's why when you watch Christmas, special, you know, television programmes, you often find that they are A) inside and they'll be inside with roaring fires. But if you happen to look through the windows, you might find they haven't quite managed to mask all the summer flowering things that are going on out through the window. So it's clearly not December at all. Times are they've got to do it in the summer because it's got to go out in December.

Sam Birkett 12:13
Yeah, exactly and putting all that campaign together and always remember a local pub of ours there was I don't know it must have been well, it was definitely middle of the year and they had to close the pub for a few days because they had a Christmas advert being shops they were in there was snow machines in the carpark you know, going around it and people probably sweating inside you say by roaring log fire going oh, yes, this is wonderful. But it's that...

Sally Green 12:36
Wearing completely thick hot jumpers and fleeces to make themselves look particularly red rosey-cheeked.

Sam Birkett 12:42
Exactly and so it's almost that I mean, as we've alluded to the sort of theme here, I suppose about, you know, the season you're in or the season you're about to enter is, is that it's not the one you're thinking you're thinking about a season or two ahead. Again, of course, I know, depending on your market and what you're selling. But even so, I mean, that as a general rule, is that thing about, as you say, not sort of just I don't know, because everyone immediately thinks, well, it's in the words, isn't it wrapping up, you know, not literally wrapping up. But wrapping up towards the end of the year, things are ending, trundling down, just trying to finish off things as best as possible and then, you know, the thing that always happens, I think, is more for marketers, but anyone I talked to is that everyone else then puts their deadline pressure on them. Because everyone wants to finish things. So one of my sort of words of advice, perhaps would be assessing site back in perhaps October even saying, what is it that actually needs to be finished? And what is it that a lot of people would just like to be finished?

Sally Green 13:47
That's a really good point. Because actually, what you don't want to do is rush to finish things. As you say, does it really need to go out on December 12th? Really, really? You know. That's a really good point because as you say that also, there's no doubt that however honest we are with ourselves, or keen or enthusiastic your brain just start switching off when we're rolling up to Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever it is. You're not quite up for doing this brand-new campaign. We're going to start doing TikTok on December 15th. We've never done it before. This is the ideal time to plan it. Yeah, maybe but probably not.

Sam Birkett 14:30
Yeah, exactly. Because I think you do. I think you do absolutely. Say on the one hand, you're sort of trundling down things, you know, because you've got all the stuff you know, you've got, the activities to go to, you've got Christmas presents to buy, you've got socials near the Christmas parties, ubiquitous Christmas party. There's all this sort of, you know, stuff going on and bubbling up and so you know, we're all human beings, as you say, and we have that kind of sense of both at the same time almost you can be in a situation where you're rushing, rushing, rushing to finish things. But at the same time you're going, I just want to relax and I just want to stop. This is the first stop, and I want to just get into the Christmas spirit and have fun and you know, you've got all of that going on and then at the same time, you're then thinking, yeah, what are the fresh new ideas and things we do for the next year? And so it's almost like a think perhaps it's trying to almost just simplified. They're like, strip out the things which you're thinking, considering which you really don't need to be starting fresh or doing right now. Don't rely too much on coming back in January, and then suddenly going, Hey, now we'll, we'll do this and we'll do that. It's like, clearly it's an artificial milestone and so, you know, looking at your plan, I suppose this again, I suppose really is like saying, let's go right back to the start of or the last time you did a major review of what your plan is for your year, and say, right, so what are the elements of that? What are the critical elements of that plan? And the budget we're spending and the campaigns we're running, which needs to be happening now. What's the variance caused by the holiday season and what's the stuff that we just need to carry on doing? You know, stick to task.

Sally Green 16:12
Yeah, and you really do need to go and talk to your finance team now and say, it's the end of the year. I have overspent here, but actually, we've underspent over here, what can I do with you finance team to make sure that A) my budget doesn't get cut next year, because budgets in the big corporate world, very strange things happen behind the scenes and if you don't spend all your money, all of a sudden, you have less money next year and you might have a good reason for not having spent it, but you need that money next year. So now is the time to go and have a really, really good conversation with the finance team and finance teams can be brilliant, because they don't want the bottom line to ricochet either. They want it to look like it's perfectly planned and everything has gone out. We've paid for all the right things at the right time in the right speed and they want to juggle the money as much as you do and they will help you kind of pre-pay for things or hide mysterious amounts of money into next year's budget. So I mean, it's well worth spending time with them actually, not just hoping next year, it'll be all right.

Sam Birkett 17:18
Exactly. I mean, as you say, I mean, timing-wise, actually, this is a very good sign because you do have that natural juncture and it's also, that's where you can really start. I mean, I think I often find that when I was planning in a team that this would be the excellent time to really just go right. Yeah, you say, where are we with finance? Where are we looking at? Where's our landing zone for you know, April? How's it looking now? And then you do have that chance, don't you to sort of, yeah, recalibrate, I suppose.

Sally Green 17:50
And don't forget that it's probably best to do that in November, then December because the finance team will be having kittens about year-end. Month-end is bad enough. Year End is horrible and month end in December is horrible-horrible. So try and do it with them now, before they just say we can't see you again until January.

Sam Birkett 18:12
Yeah, exactly. Exactly, and I think, as, you know, just this ongoing thing we have, I suppose and this is really the sort of got to this point, it's like thinking lots of this stuff now and it almost makes me wonder about whether there's any mileage in almost having a, you know, what do because we're all, you know, I say we're all finishing most people we're here in the UK are finishing and having holidays, etc, then came back in lots of businesses finishing completely and then came back in January, so it's almost two weeks off. When you're back, it's almost saying what's the first two weeks look like now? So we all have sight of that when the team is all still around? And even in your own individual base as well, what are my first two weeks of January look like? What is it that I need to have planned out and considered so that by the time I can come back in easily, as easily as possible, to then pick things up. There's nothing worse than coming back in and going, right, so okay, what's happening?

Sally Green 19:15
What shall I do?

Sam Birkett 19:16
Yeah, what should I do now? And you're just calculating that at the same time as then a whole deluge of people come along and say, right, so need to pick up on this, this, this and this, which was left in December and I mean, because this is this time is unlike the whole summer holiday season and Easter and things like that. It's longer probably and it's across everyone at the same time. It's not a sort of a well, I'm going over two weeks and so these people are handling this while I'm away. It's the whole nature of everything sort of, to certainly, I say everything I'm very well aware as lots of business out there which just carry on and trundling through this period, probably to about majority here, I suppose that they do shut up shop for a period of time.

Sally Green 19:59
Some businesses switch off the lights, the doors are locked and you can't go into the office even if he wanted to. So you're right. It's an actual physical lockdown. It's not possible to go to work, even if you've got something desperate that has to be done. You have to be at home with your turkey.

Sam Birkett 20:16
Yes, it's easy to do. Well, I mean, because one of the points I was thinking about this actually was I've been looking at the personal mental health aspect of it as well and I think, not just in marketing, but marketers are often saying, oh, gosh, you know, because we're doing all this thinking ahead, planning ahead and you've got all of that going on and I think almost everyone I've talked to recently is, they always seem to be busy, but in particular seems to be on it's just, it's really busy. It's so important. This may sound totally obvious, but it is so important to stop, to switch off, to enjoy your time and okay, yeah, you may have maybe a lover of Christmas, who loves getting all the family round and has a huge dinner and traditions and so on and so forth for you, maybe somebody just goes no, I just like to get away and just escape and go abroad or to a remote cottage somewhere in Wales, whatever, it's so important to stop and feel that you can you know, it was like be in a place where you're, you're confident that you know what's going on and you can park it, you do stop, you stop mentally.

Sally Green 21:23
So do not switch your computer on to go oh, I'll just do that. Switch off that 'I'll just finish that' button in your head and your right, it's really hard. But it's so valuable for your mental health to give yourself that a release and actually say you've done okay, this year, well done. Now you can stop.

Sam Birkett 21:43
Yeah, yeah, exactly, because otherwise, you're just you know, you're just never really quite, you're just trundling on and going oh, yeah. So I've thought of this idea and some people are workaholics and you know, they'll run out in the middle of Christmas lunch and say, I've just got a great idea, I need to get a post-it note for something we can do. Yeah. I mean, it takes all sorts, of course. But I think if people are, you need to set yourself up beforehand, to be able to then enjoy the period and stop and have that break, I think because otherwise, it's just, it's almost like then you look back in January and regret it and go, ahh, I wish I'd have actually really checked out properly and just enjoyed myself. Rather than keeping on worrying about all these. I know, you can't switch off worrying, I know you can't switch off consideration of things. But if you do everything you can in your power, and your boss needs to obviously facilitate this and your HR. They all need to make sure you can have a proper break. If you are taking the proper break for the whole time. I just think that's yeah, it's really important.

Sally Green 22:46
I'm not saying that, you know, if some people will have a eureka, if you have a eureka moment on New Year's Eve, yeah, write it down, as you say on a post-it note and I try not to lose it, but don't kind of go, oh I've got all this time I've got to do some thinking about next year, this time is to kind of look inwards, not think about other things outwards, you know, think about you and your family and your dog and your goldfish and think about the things you haven't spent enough of the years thinking about.

Sam Birkett 23:12
Yeah, exactly and another thing I was going to mention on this, which I don't know, if it's useless to talk about not really, but this always seems to be the time of year when most people consider changing careers or changing jobs, isn't it? I mean, so you may very well find that if you manage a team of I don't know, 20 people that by the 1st of February, two or three of them have handed in their notice and moving on to pastures new. So it's almost from a managerial standpoint. I don't know, I don't know whether I'm not saying you should do anything, which would be like, right, so I need to prepare myself that I'm going to lose half my team or that you know, they're all gonna go. But I think perhaps, I suppose from a personal standpoint, and also, from a managerial standpoint, it's almost like accepting that this... I think it just happens, I don't know. I mean, I personally, I think I've had this in the past, if not actually acting on it and moving, I have considered it because that is again, we said that's the time you start with a time you have conversations with long lost friends and family and say, oh, what are you how's your career going? You just you think, don't you? I think a lot of people do consider. So yeah, I don't know what I'm saying really, in terms of like, from a marketing standpoint, is it the case that that's such an effect your impact you and you can't predict whether someone is going to go or not? You can't predict whether you think yeah, I'm gonna go but it's almost like be prepared for us, I suppose, is what I'm saying.

Sally Green 24:43
But I mean, one of the things that we've been talking about as we talk about writing a rounding off report and saying that it is part of that might be for yourself also say if next year, I mean you may not publish this bit of it, but if next year X, Y and Z leaves, does this give me the opportunity to restructure what we do? Or how feasible would that be? So, maybe have a little think about what big impacts could happen next year that you can't predict and you may not want to happen, but might happen, that might be a good thing to say, because perhaps we have discovered from this rounding up, but actually, we're useless at doing TikTok videos, we tried it and it spent a lot of money and we all think they were gonna have to do it again next year, we're all dreading it. But actually, maybe a big thing to do is just say, we're just not going to do it next year. Now is the time to think I've looked, it was rubbish and anyway, it's just possible that Sam, who's the only person that can do them and be likes doing them might leave and what would that do. We'd have a huge gap in our marketing team, and our marketing provision, all of a sudden, we've got no TikTok videos going out. Oh, my God and this might be something to think about it. So it has got a marketing purpose. What happens if you lose your key TikTok-er?

Sam Birkett 25:56
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? I think and then, as you alluded to there, I think, perhaps from a management point of view, as well, looking at how you constitute the team, things you're doing, and then how you're making the most of your people, of your human resource because I think there's perhaps a good time, you know, quite a lot of people have had, you know, if it's like, end of calendar year reviews, quite often HR things seem to come around that time, don't they? Because of, you know, bonuses and things like that, and you probably had your review back in the end of October or something, and then you're waiting for your Christmas bonus, which will come through in this lovely envelope or something or an email and it's that sort of time, isn't it? But it does make me think about, you know, that review as a manager about understanding Well, so what, how have I performed this year in my leadership of this team, and how, you know, getting feedback from the team about how it's going, is good because there can also be that rather enlightening moments that happens at say, a Christmas party or Christmas do of some sort with someone then has had a, shall we say, a few beverages and then they decide to open up properly in a more relaxed way, an honest way about you and your leadership style, or the direction of the business, or their own career. So I think there's almost that sort of thing as well, because I think this emotional beings observation is the fact that I've seen that before, as well, a few times, a perfectly lighthearted couple of drinks down the pub to wish Merry Christmas has turned into a couple of people hanging out staying there for a few hours to talk about in-depth about their career and their future, and why what's wrong with the team now and so on, so forth. So it's almost that as well, again, as a manager, perhaps it's maybe just, you know, being aware of that, but then looking at what you are doing the rest of the year to support your team's development as well, leading up to that period.

Sally Green 27:58
As a team member, I'm not actually advocating, you should perhaps have a sherbert too many, and then lay into your boss. But it might be a good time to as a team member think, how has this actually gone for me, what don't I like doing, you might discover that I just, I'm just no good at doing LinkedIn adverts everyone I've done has failed, or I've got this wrong or that wrong and maybe now is the time for me to actually write down and say to my boss, I either don't want to do them anymore, which we probably shouldn't do that. But say, I clearly need some training on LinkedIn, it's a really important thing and I now want some training. So it's important for the team members, not just a managerial overlook for you to think about how you've managed your year and how you can do next year better.

Sam Birkett 28:44
Exactly. Yeah, I think it's a very, it's a good time top spot the gaps, isn't it? As you say, so in our budgets, in our plans, in our developments of team, what have we found that, you know, because I think those things do occur when it is a bit quiet. I mean, I quite like that period of time, when, you know, people have sort of started to filter away. If you're in the luxurious position of having sort of done all the critical stuff you need to do by the Friday, before the last three days of the shortened week, before the Christmas holidays, and you're still around in the office. I mean, to be honest, I quite enjoy that. So quite a special time, you know, people are sort of a bit more relaxed...

Sally Green 29:24
Oh me too.

Sam Birkett 29:24
... a bit more open, aren't they? And then you as well start to find that different sorts of conversations come along, different sorts of ponderings come up, don't they about what we've done, where we're going. So I'd almost sort of say there's almost a sort of the workflow described as the harder more, you know, properly and formal kind of planning ahead, doing all that stuff nice and early and then having that thought about, what are we doing when we come back in January already in place, and then it's this sort of sweet spot In the middle, isn't it, if you're still around, and there are some people is that kind of the softer spot in the middle, where you get more of these kinds of perhaps conversations, perhaps thinking, and perhaps some interesting, useful stuff can come out. So you've almost given yourself the freedom of meeting with finance, meeting with stakeholders, sorting out campaigns, as I say, all that's done and you create that little festive thinking space. I don't know.

Sally Green 30:34
Yeah, no, absolutely... you've kind of nailed it, that space where we can say, I can't give myself a hard time, I'm useless at this, that and the other. But actually, I'm not being allowed to do enough of this, I'm really good at this and I don't get to do enough of it might be, you know, might be a brilliant analytics person and you're just not giving me the space. Pluck up the courage to say to your manager, because he or she will be in a relatively festive mood, hopefully, in feeling, hopefully not too... I mean, look at it and make sure he's not pulling his hair out, but just say to them, do you think next year, we could have a little think about this than the other? And then when you come back in January, don't let them forget. Because what can happen is you say to them in this time of year going, oh, I'd really like to do this and the other, and you come back in January, and it's complete... not swept under the carpet, but everything is so frantic, that you're what you want to get swept to the side and everyone's forgotten all about it. So keep mentioning it next year as well.

Sam Birkett 31:35
Yeah, definitely. Because, again, it's that thing of, if you look at this on a graph, and I'm obviously doing this with my hands that no one can see, but the whole thing of things perhaps tumbling down on a gradual gradient, and then, you know, having the opportunity at that point to say, hey, yeah, could we do this, can I do that next year, and then you're fine and then you come back in January, this huge spike, things shoot up again, like UK inflation, this is huge, sort of like, you know, rough going in the wrong direction. So almost the sort of the stress and consideration space for your manager to think about things. You've got a sweet spot there. But it is the following up afterwards, as you say, and, and it's almost again, I suppose this just leads to everybody within a scene no matter what their role, playing a part and having I think the leadership, marketing leadership thing has to be learned that this is the path we have to Christmas and into January. So we're almost planning in October, how November, December, January, end of January is looking and we've got all of that mapped out. So we're all on the same page. We're all going through this together and hopefully, if you've done that, say you then you just free up the spaces given the season for people to then do that bit of sharing and get a bit out of it. I'm not saying, you know, let's ensure that I have really deep and meaningful conversations with every member of the team before, you know, December the 23rd. But it's almost like it's a good opportunity just to connect on a human level because it's usually pretty much I mean, some people have summer parties. Christmas is usually the time isn't it when you think about a team's dynamics that you do 'socialise' in inverted commas, enforced socialising.

Sally Green 33:26
Absolutely, you will go out for that party!

Sam Birkett 33:29
Yes, you will wear silly hats and pull crackers.

Sally Green 33:34
And Christmas Jumpers.

Sam Birkett 33:34
Yeah, and someone will have too much to drink and this will happen to that happen and you know, and it's sort of like, I suppose the last few years we were not able to do those things people had like Christmas quizzes online and things, haven't they? So this perhaps is one of the first years and like last year where people feel truly liberated again, to actually go out and properly do the whole Christmas party scene and everything. So perhaps it's something you haven't, it's interesting going back into it if you've not done it for a few years, or you're new in the workspace, and you've never been to a Christmas party and it's not usually just one party. It's going to be like, you'll meet up with people have a lunch and you'll have an extra coffee with someone and it's all those.

Sally Green 34:13
And you'll probably meet your suppliers, you know, you'll meet the suppliers. If you've only ever spoken to you by email, you might discover that you've always thought that Jack was a man and actually discovered Jack is a female. You think oh, that's interesting, never spoken to you before.

Sam Birkett 34:29
It's only been email up until now and here you are. But so many people just this whole it's time to cement relationships with the suppliers or the stakeholders, with your audience as well. I mean, the thing we haven't spoken about as much as guesses about what do you communicate to your audience, the savvy I mean, there's the typical, most people I find, I'll say, well, we just send a Christmas e-card and we send a printed version to the people who matter the most Is it worth our VIP clients and partners, and I don't know, I'm personally split about the value of is it actually a genuinely opportunity to do something different and quite interesting, which usually printers, do I find as a marketer. So you get some really lovely stuff from printers, which is very clever. But doing what you do, is their opportunity? Or is it more of a, I don't know, just well, we will send a message and we will wish everyone glad tidings of the season. But it doesn't really mean we have to do anything else. You have to ask that question. But well in advance.

Sally Green 35:43
It's one of the things that always causes trouble, because you will, theoretically you won't start thinking about your Christmas cards until probably the second week in December. Yeah, should have thought about past ages ago, but you won't have done and then all of a sudden, someone in the Central Department will come and say how many Christmas cards do you want? And you'll think I haven't got the faintest idea, oh my God, I'll just say everybody said, then I need 250 or something ridiculous number and then you end up spending hours and hours and hours because you sent the Christmas cards and you have to stuffed them in the envelopes and sign them and it can become a huge burden. So now might be a time to think about that, too.

Sam Birkett 36:20
Yes, yes, and how often have you said, oh, I need this many Christmas cards, and you end up sending less than half of them, because you go at the end of the day, you ask people, How many do we need? Oh, probably this many, 500? Okay, let's do that. And then you say, hang on a second, why? I mean, I suppose the e-card things have helped with that to a certain degree. But then again, I don't know, it's an issue and I think every year I consider this and think well, what purpose is it serving? And is it nothing other than, you know, like you do you know, kids going to school, they'll write a Christmas card out for other people in the class and things like that. Is it more of a look, I just want to send this out to say that, I suppose the most meaningful ones were your genuinely reaffirming relationships, saying, Look, thank you so much for everything you've done and we've done together this year and all the best for next year and just, it's just those points of reaffirming, you know, relationships, I suppose, which is the most important thing.

Sally Green 37:23
And it depends how close your relationship to your customers is and I'm not suggesting you ignore your customers and don't send them anything. But really, do they really want a Christmas card from you? I mean, I get Christmas cards from my utility suppliers. Well, thanks British Gas, but really...

Sam Birkett 37:45
PR wise. Yeah, yeah, because it's like, why are you spending all this money on Christmas cards, when I'm paying this much money for my energy?

Sally Green 37:56
Exactly! What possible difference is it gonna make so maybe your customers don't need a Christmas card, maybe save your money and you could actually send them all an email saying, we have chosen this year not to do that for financial reasons or to help us save the planet or whatever it is, because we're COP26, or whatever we're doing. Maybe that's not the thing to do. So think about whether Oh, yeah, it's Christmas, we have to do the cards, is the right thing to do at all.

Sam Birkett 38:23
Exactly and I suppose I'd almost feel that. If you're going to do anything, do it with that purpose, do it with a sort of a, this is why we're we want to do this and if it's a gift of some sort, perhaps it's a gift of time, perhaps it's a gift of an interesting insight or report or something depending on what you work in of course. Perhaps it's something which is just a value, you're just giving back some value as a gift, effectively, and ideally, something that perhaps they've got the Christmas periods to read and to digest and utilise. But yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? That whole what, is there a Christmas campaign? What are you sending out and sharing over the Christmas period, again I mean, depending on your market. Are there things that you do which you wouldn't normally do sort of slightly more, I don't know, 'fun', inverted commas fun and sort of cheeky things that you do. Is that consistent? Is it not? Is it a good time to do it? I think all those kinds of questions you have to have had and work out what's going to work for your audience and see if it's best.

Sally Green 39:34
Is it appropriate, but might it be a time to set up your audience for things you're going to do for the next year? So saying you have a happy Christmas we look forward to working with you next year on whatever it is, or we look forward to introducing you to our new product Y next year, so maybe try and make your Christmas message something not just Happy Christmas, see you next year, but actually Happy Christmas, we look forward to working with you on this next year. So they think, oh, that sounds interesting. I look forward to that. Rather than oh, it's just another Christmas card.

Sam Birkett 40:08
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the thing. So, that you've at least got that, it's whatever you do is aligned to the relationship that you have, and that you want to take in a certain direction. You know, in the New Year is based more on that, rather than, hey, let's come up with something a really snazzy exciting, like Christmas video and make this, you know, because again, depending exactly on your market, and what it is you sell your audience, that's the critical thing, isn't it? But yes and again, I suppose, connecting back because I don't know, I think we've kind of product covered everything now. But it seems as if again, I'd say yeah, once again, well, the golden thread seems to be this whole, the Christmas cards, everything else, prepare well in advance.

Sally Green 40:58
And yes, think about it now if you haven't thought about it already.

Sam Birkett 41:02
Yeah and it's the sort of... it's actually thinking about, I don't know, I suppose connecting this. So it doesn't just be your business not as a standalone thing, like, oh, busy, busy, finish, and then Christmas and then on we go the next year, seeing it's not as two distinct things like a phase of that's this year finishing, and then it's the new year. It's more of a no, no, no, this is just a prelude to the new year.

Sally Green 41:30
That's a really good way of putting it.

Sam Birkett 41:31
And that's just with everything, isn't it? I suppose across all those things, with finance, cost-planning, cross-team developments, everything.

Sally Green 41:38
Yeah. So that when you come back on January 2nd or whenever you're going to come back in, you're not frightened of the year, you're not thinking, Oh, I don't really know what's going on. Oh, I haven't done that because I've forgotten to talk to so-and-so, bloody hell. But nothing is kind of scary. Coming in January and think, Oh, my God, this is just a nightmare and I'm hopeless at this. Because actually, A) you're not and B) this is the time to make sure you're you don't have a chance to think that next year, because it's all planned.

Sam Birkett 42:09
Yeah, and it's that sort of, so we're gonna say about pre-New Year's resolution almost which you can get in place and then having that soft landing, the January soft landing so that you are...

Sally Green 42:21
That's really good, a January soft landing.

Sam Birkett 42:25
Because we all want that, that's the best Christmas present, which you can enjoy afterwards and have that and mentally, it gives you the space. I mean, of course, all these things. In an ideal world, you'd only ever do so much to try and ensure this. But if you can take all the steps, then you're going to put yourself... you can set yourself up for hopefully having two things, one a good break and two, a good recommencement in the new year, aren't you hopefully.

Sally Green 42:51
And I'm sure some of our listeners are thinking, Oh my God, they're talking about Christmas now when it's not even December, what are they doing? But what we're trying to say is, yes, we are talking about this earlier, because then you've got breathing space to make this, we're not trying to say well, let's all put tinsel around everything and you know, dress up as an elf between now and Christmas. But give yourself a breathing space now to make sure that you can wind down. That's why we're doing this talk now. Not the week before Christmas.

Sam Birkett 43:24
No, no, exactly, because, yeah, the timelines are... it's just yeah, it's so close in my mind. It's so close and again, depending on what it is you doing, so, I mean, my goodness, if anyone's watching this who works in the festive industry or the retail, etc. My goodness. I mean, you have decorations up for weeks. You were planning last November and now here you are. This is just the very tail end of it all. You know, you're already on barbecues for next year, aren't you?

Sally Green 43:59
Yep, exactly right. I have to tell everyone that Sam has said that he is going to dress as an elf from the 1st of December, aren't you?

Sam Birkett 44:06
Correct, yes. It's going to be every day in and out the school run I'm sure I won't get any strange looks. I think people will just enter into the spirit and I think that's fair game to be honest. It's you know, it's an Advent treat. So why not?

Sally Green 44:23
Exactly so next time you listen to this, you'll just have to picture Sam in his little hat and his funny curly shoes. It's a picture.

Sam Birkett 44:32
In a beautiful elf costume. Just have to make sure we've got a scarf and everything, those leggings can get quite cold. You know, so we'll have to see how that goes but the marketing elf!

Sally Green 44:46
The marketing elf, that's exactly right.

Sam Birkett 44:49
Here you go. Gosh,

Sally Green 44:50
We will have to come back to that closer to the time.

Sam Birkett 44:52
We will. Yes.

Sally Green 44:54
Oh my goodness me now he's putting a plan in place.

Sam Birkett 44:56
Yeah, it's all there. It's all there. We've got to get this going now. So I'll have to, I have to work it through I think but oh, well, I think on that note...

Sally Green 45:05
It might be time for us to stop!

Sam Birkett 45:08
Starting to go in festive cheer already, which is nice. But as ever, I suppose really, it would be nice to know talking of planning for next year and everything, it'd be nice to know if there are any topics that people want us to look at. So if you email us at meanderspod@gmail.com or I think we're actually sharing some more of these episodes on LinkedIn soon. So if you see an episode out there, then come back and reply to us and say, hey, you haven't spoken enough about Twitter and what's happening there with the takeover and everything. Well you haven't spoken with us you have spoken about that. What about this? That'd be great to know and yeah, really useful, I suppose for the New Year as well so...

Sally Green 45:49
Completely for our next year plans, because we too plan for the next year.

Sam Birkett 45:53
Yes. Thank you very much Sally.

Sally Green 45:55
Yep. Thank you very much Sam. That was great, thank you and I hope everyone got something out of that.

Sam Birkett 45:58
Yes, indeed. Yes. And, we'll see you all soon. Take care. Bye for now.

Sally Green 46:04
Okay. Bye, everyone.